Motley Fool has something nice to say about Sirius for once

[Mark S.]

By Rick Aristotle Munarriz (TMF Edible)
November 16, 2004

Yes, Sirius Satellite Radio (Nasdaq: SIRI) matters again. The stock closed
yesterday at a level last seen 30 months ago. If you go by market cap, given
the stock's unfortunate habit of speed-printing new shares, the company has
never been valued as high as it is right now at $5.5 billion. Yet if things
pan out just right, the stock will be worth every penny.

I've already waxed positive on the stock more than a few times this year,
and you are more than welcome to revisit the reasons for my optimism if you
wish. While it's true that David Gardner and the Rule Breakers team
successfully shorted the stock at $6.90 back in January 2002 and profited
from its slide all the way down to $0.93 a year later, I believe that the
fundamentals have improved smartly since then.

The migration to satellite radio is real. Sirius and rival XM Satellite
Radio (Nasdaq: XMSR) will be signing up a million new subscribers this
quarter alone. Attractive deals with automakers are making satellite radio
receivers a popular factory-installed option in more and more cars, and now
the content is coming.

While Sirius is still behind XM on the subscriber count, it's holding a
strong hand for the future after landing the NFL and then Howard Stern. The
Stern deal is what is truly promising as he will be heard exclusively on
Sirius come 2006. If just 10% of his free radio listeners make the move to
Sirius to tune into Stern's rowdy morning show, it will be a profitable move
for Sirius.

While a bullish initial stock rating from CIBC World Markets helped the
stock last week, more than a few Sirius watchers will be tuning into David
Letterman's The Late Show come Thursday. Handcuffed by Viacom (NYSE: VIA)
when it comes to pimping his deal with Sirius on his Viacom-owned radio
show, Stern has already told his listeners that his stint on Letterman will
be like an infomercial. The fact that Viacom also owns CBS will make this
very interesting for more than just the potential for verbal fireworks.

If Stern ruffles enough feathers, it may be quite possible that Viacom and
Sirius would negotiate an early buyout of the Stern show. It's not what
either party would want, as Sirius could use another year of milking the
publicity to shore up its user base before committing to its $100 million
annual contract with Stern, and Viacom would hate to lose a money maker who
rules the critical morning drive radio market.

However, if free radio is going to become a casualty of the satellite radio
revolution, there may be no better time like the present to get it started.
If Stern's mouth proves to be the equivalent of the assassination of Franz
Ferdinand, history may write a new chapter come Thursday. As the early
adopter columnist in our new Rule Breakers research newsletter, I couldn't
be more excited.

[Truth]

> While Sirius is still behind XM on the subscriber count, it's holding a
> strong hand for the future after landing the NFL and then Howard Stern. The
> Stern deal is what is truly promising as he will be heard exclusively on
> Sirius come 2006.

This assumes they will be able to keep afloat until 2006. That is the year
the FCC predicted everyone would have an HDTV in their home and analog
television could stop broadcasting too.

> If just 10% of his free radio listeners make the move to
> Sirius to tune into Stern's rowdy morning show, it will be a profitable move
> for Sirius.

Yes, but if they wait until 2006 to make the move, how is that going to keep
Sirius around up until 2006? Especially if everyone else is buying XM radios
and they see all their friends with XM radios?

> While a bullish initial stock rating from CIBC World Markets helped the
> stock last week, more than a few Sirius watchers will be tuning into David
> Letterman's The Late Show come Thursday. Handcuffed by Viacom (NYSE: VIA)
> when it comes to pimping his deal with Sirius on his Viacom-owned radio
> show

Oh yeah, he hasn't mentioned a peep about Sirius every hour of every day.

> , Stern has already told his listeners that his stint on Letterman will
> be like an infomercial.

What a great way to get people to watch! Informercials get such high ratings
because people LOVE to watch informercials.

> The fact that Viacom also owns CBS will make this
> very interesting for more than just the potential for verbal fireworks.

Yes, what a coincidence. First they pretend to not let Stern talk about
Sirius, when every other word out of his mouth is Sirius, then they let him talk
about it some more on their television network.

Seems to me CBS is going out of their way to PROMOTE Sirius for some reason.
Perhaps the rumors of them wanting to buy Sirius are not just rumors.

> If Stern ruffles enough feathers, it may be quite possible that Viacom and
> Sirius would negotiate an early buyout of the Stern show. It's not what
> either party would want, as Sirius could use another year of milking the
> publicity

What publicity? I thought they just said Stern is "handcuffed" from talking
about it?

> However, if free radio is going to become a casualty of the satellite radio
> revolution

Just as FM radio killed AM radio? Or how Television got rid of FM and AM?

Turns out the most money is still made for many on the old AM radio, the first
broadcast service around. Nothing killed it yet.

> If Stern's mouth proves to be the equivalent of the assassination of Franz
> Ferdinand, history may write a new chapter come Thursday. As the early
> adopter columnist in our new Rule Breakers research newsletter, I couldn't
> be more excited.

Calm down Beavis. A whole satellite industry is not going to kill regular
radio, especially ONE MAN and his ONE SHOW!

[Bonehenge]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:28:16 -0330, "Mark S." <vo1one@gee-mail.com>
wrote:


>While Sirius is still behind XM on the subscriber count, it's holding a
>strong hand for the future after landing the NFL and then Howard Stern. The
>Stern deal is what is truly promising as he will be heard exclusively on
>Sirius come 2006. If just 10% of his free radio listeners make the move to
>Sirius to tune into Stern's rowdy morning show, it will be a profitable move
>for Sirius.

This morning there was talk on the Stern show of XM buying his Sirius
contract.

Howard said something along the lines of "I'm confused by the whole
thing".


Barry

[Mark S.]

"Bonehenge" <Keep_it_in_the_newsgroup_please@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5r9lp0h69b2ao3hofmjgdpplh56l5e50c9@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 19:28:16 -0330, "Mark S." <vo1one@gee-mail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>While Sirius is still behind XM on the subscriber count, it's holding a
>>strong hand for the future after landing the NFL and then Howard Stern.
>>The
>>Stern deal is what is truly promising as he will be heard exclusively on
>>Sirius come 2006. If just 10% of his free radio listeners make the move to
>>Sirius to tune into Stern's rowdy morning show, it will be a profitable
>>move
>>for Sirius.
>
> This morning there was talk on the Stern show of XM buying his Sirius
> contract.
>
> Howard said something along the lines of "I'm confused by the whole
> thing".
>
>
> Barry

Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius. Wouldn't that be
something if it did, though? Crazy stuff. Maybe that's why Stern has in
his open letter/satellite radio update the logos to both Sirius and XM.
Maybe we'll hear more on the Dave Letterman show Thursday.

[Truth]

> >While Sirius is still behind XM on the subscriber count, it's holding a
> >strong hand for the future after landing the NFL and then Howard Stern. The
> >Stern deal is what is truly promising as he will be heard exclusively on
> >Sirius come 2006. If just 10% of his free radio listeners make the move to
> >Sirius to tune into Stern's rowdy morning show, it will be a profitable move
> >for Sirius.
>
> This morning there was talk on the Stern show of XM buying his Sirius
> contract.

Now THAT would make sense.

[Truth]

> > This morning there was talk on the Stern show of XM buying his Sirius
> > contract.
> >
>
> Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius.

Now I'm confused. What has been GOOD news for Sirius?

Hell, this Christmas is going to be REALLY bad news for Sirius.

> Maybe we'll hear more on the Dave Letterman show Thursday.

Think Sirius will still be in business by Thursday? They might be able to
hold out that long, but anything is possible.

[Mark S.]

"Truth" <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message news:419AB723.6F19B95@sucks.com...
>> > This morning there was talk on the Stern show of XM buying his Sirius
>> > contract.
>> >
>>
>> Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius.
>
> Now I'm confused. What has been GOOD news for Sirius?
>
> Hell, this Christmas is going to be REALLY bad news for Sirius.
>
>> Maybe we'll hear more on the Dave Letterman show Thursday.
>
> Think Sirius will still be in business by Thursday? They might be able
> to
> hold out that long, but anything is possible.

Probably, and they'll probably will be around in 2006 as well, but does it
really matter? Let's say they filed for bankruptcy and can't successfully
reconstruct under protection and they fail miserably. Someone will buy them
and operate them. Iridium, a much bigger gamble and huge debt loss has what
50 some odd satellites and had probably 1,000 customers world wide and then
they went dark but what do you know, they're back! Well I guess a lot of
that had to do with the US Government pumping a lot of money into it, but
still it would be something to go down in the history books if Sirius ever
went dark for good. I know you'll never have a positive outlook for Sirius,
others don't feel the same way you do. What will it take for you to believe
Sirius will survive? CFBE?

[Bonehenge]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:01:47 -0330, "Mark S." <vo1one@gee-mail.com>
wrote:
>Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius.

Maybe not. Selling Stern to XM certainly could raise some much needed
cash.

Let's face it, he's still over a year away, they need cash now.

Barry

[Truth]

> Probably, and they'll probably will be around in 2006 as well, but does it
> really matter? Let's say they filed for bankruptcy

How many more times will they be allowed to do that?

> and can't successfully
> reconstruct under protection and they fail miserably. Someone will buy them
> and operate them.

You think? I see a lot of companies that are doing GOOD, get bought out by
bigger companies, and then they fail within a year or two.

And it is not the same thing as buying an FM radio station that is doing poorly,
then change the format and do well, because everyone already has a radio that
can pick them up, plus it doesn't cost anything to listen to it.

Here you would be purchasing a satellite service that requires a special
receiver, and people have to CHOOSE between you, and the more successful other
company that most people already have.

Would you have bought the rights to Betamax at the end when they were failing
and tried to compete against VHS?

Video game companies that end up losing to playstation and nintendo, instead
just program games that work on the systems that won the marketplace. That is
smart.

Sirius should buy some channels from XM, then they can both work together to
make one compatible service stronger and profitable for both of them.

> still it would be something to go down in the history books if Sirius ever
> went dark for good.

We seen it with Betamax.

> I know you'll never have a positive outlook for Sirius,

You make it sound as if it is personal. I knew that Betamax was a much
better quality system than VHS, but I went with VHS because I was it was the
winner in the market place, and I can still use those decks today, while anyone
with Betamax is stuck with a useless machine with no more movies being made for
them.

At the beginning, I was hoping for Sirius, because at the beginning, they had
superior quality audio, and XM was a company influenced by Clear Channel.

But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of these
companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as VHS and
Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own another, we
CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth between
the two stations.

> others don't feel the same way you do.

More people subscribe to XM than do for Sirius, so I don't know where you are
getting that idea from.

In fact, if Howard Stern had not ever decided to go with Sirius, no one would
even be TALKING about Sirius today. They were just about to fold in, and
this attempt to try and keep the race going is just hurtful to everyone, mostly
the consumer.

> What will it take for you to believe
> Sirius will survive?

The same it would take for you to believe Beta will survive.

What kind of computer do you have, PC or Mac?

Many people tried to convince me that Mac was better. But if I want to trade
files and work on programs from work and home, I need PC. If I want to email
and trade files with friends, I need PC. The world works on PC, so even IF
Mac is a better machine, what good is it if it is not compatible with most of
the world? Why schools insist on teaching kids on Macs, when in the real
world they will have to work on PCs in the workplace, and have PCs at home they
use, is still a mystery to me.

Mac has almost completely gone away many times, why are they still around?
Because those in artistic mediums like graphics design still use them.
Betamax still exists in the commercial medium too, many broadcast stations still
use them, although they are commercial decks, not consumer. The reason I can
still buy minidiscs, is because even though the consumer didn't click to them,
the broadcast industry did, so I can still buy them.

But on the consumer side, Mac is dead. Some still are stubborn and insist on
trying hard to keep them alive, and the only reason they can, is because files
can be converted and used on both systems now. But before many movie studios
can use the audio files I make for them, they have to convert them to aiff files
first.

At one time, I had to master audio recordings on Mac based Sonic Solutions.
Then we saw how much better PC based Wavelab and the AudioCube was in
comparison, and made the switch.

Now I can work at home and at their studios, because we are all compatible.
In fact, I can email an entire project, just by emailing a file that is smaller
than a jpg, that when they open it up on the other end, will take all the audio
on their end and make all the edits and mixes together instantly and I don't
need to mail them a CD with all the audio files on it. All the processing and
whatnot is just contained in the montage file I can email.

Not something so easy when some people are using macs and others using PCs.

If Sirius was the company that was as far ahead of XM, as XM is now ahead of
Sirius, then I would be just as strongly in support of Sirius. But then,
Sirius would have had the better selections and music choices too, else how
would they have been ahead in the first place.

[Truth]

> >Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius.
>
> Maybe not. Selling Stern to XM certainly could raise some much needed
> cash.

Yes, but with Stern on XM, there REALLY would be no reason for anyone to
go to Sirrius at all. Right now, that is the ONLY reason to go with
Sirrius.

I just looked at their channel line up again, and they don't even have
CNN!! They have CNN headline news! XM has BOTH, but who cares about
headline news, I want CNN when I am in the car, not headline news.

[Mark S.]

"Truth" <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message
news:419B93F3.2692EFB4@sucks.com...
>> Probably, and they'll probably will be around in 2006 as well, but does
>> it
>> really matter? Let's say they filed for bankruptcy
>
> How many more times will they be allowed to do that?

Doesn't matter. I don't think they'll have to anyways.

>> and can't successfully
>> reconstruct under protection and they fail miserably. Someone will buy
>> them
>> and operate them.
>
> You think? I see a lot of companies that are doing GOOD, get bought out
> by
> bigger companies, and then they fail within a year or two.

Who says Sirius is doing bad? The only thing bad about Sirius is that
they're in debt, huge amounts of debt, but just like XM, DirecTV, Echostar,
StarChoice, ExpressVu, Voom, etc etc they all need/needed years to come out
of debt. Once they do will you accept that there's always going to be at
least two satellite radio providers in North America?

> And it is not the same thing as buying an FM radio station that is doing
> poorly,
> then change the format and do well, because everyone already has a radio
> that
> can pick them up, plus it doesn't cost anything to listen to it.

It's very different because there's some awful expensive satellites out in
space that would be silent if you didn't do something with them. You can't
make money or pay for satellites that aren't transmitting. Maybe XM could
buy them and use them to supplement XM's poor rural coverage! ;-)

> Here you would be purchasing a satellite service that requires a special
> receiver, and people have to CHOOSE between you, and the more successful
> other
> company that most people already have.

Sounds a lot like DirecTV and Dish Network. Both of these are still around
today what is it now 10 years later? Here, ExpressVu and Star Choice are
both successful. Voom feels that the HD market there is big enough to
justify them launching their own HD satellite service. All of these require
special receivers, and people have to choose between companies of varying
degrees of success.

> Would you have bought the rights to Betamax at the end when they were
> failing
> and tried to compete against VHS?

While they're extinct in the home market, in the professional video market
they seem to be doing quite well with betacam and the digital variants.
Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. VHS compared to Betamax would
be more analogous today to the various HD-DVD formats that they're coming
out with. Probably only one of those will survive or be commonly accepted.

> Video game companies that end up losing to playstation and nintendo,
> instead
> just program games that work on the systems that won the marketplace.
> That is
> smart.

XBox and PS2 seem to be both holding the market very well. The Nintendo
Game Cube is still out there but they'll probably come out with another
console system to regain their foothold. You don't see any one company
having a monopoly, plus not only do you have to have a special console for
each, you can pretty much guarantee that within 3 years, they're going to
come out with another console, stop making games for the one you just bought
for several hundreds of dollars, and make you upgrade to their latest and
greatest.

> Sirius should buy some channels from XM, then they can both work together
> to
> make one compatible service stronger and profitable for both of them.

Worldspace is programming some channels on XM. Is that making them stronger
and profitable?

>> still it would be something to go down in the history books if Sirius
>> ever
>> went dark for good.
>
> We seen it with Betamax.

It's not the same thing. Betamax going sour didn't leave perfectly good
satellites in the sky for someone else to use.

>> I know you'll never have a positive outlook for Sirius,
>
> You make it sound as if it is personal. I knew that Betamax was a much
> better quality system than VHS, but I went with VHS because I was it was
> the
> winner in the market place, and I can still use those decks today, while
> anyone
> with Betamax is stuck with a useless machine with no more movies being
> made for
> them.

How is Betamax a better quality system? Even when they did have tapes
longer than an hour, they didn't employ any methods that could not have been
accomplished with a VHS player.

> At the beginning, I was hoping for Sirius, because at the beginning, they
> had
> superior quality audio, and XM was a company influenced by Clear Channel.

I'm hoping they both survive because a monopoly is just the thing that will
get people driven away from satellite radio.

> But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of these
> companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as VHS
> and
> Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own another,
> we
> CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth
> between
> the two stations.

The radios aren't that expensive. I got both XM and Sirius for about $70
total. Unless you want to buy the latest and greatest from both services,
you don't have to sink a lot of money into either. Like your game console
analogy before, you can't play XBox games on a PS2, or vice versa. Does
that make either any less successful? Halo 2 is exclusive to the XBox.
Does that make that game company any less profitable? DirecTV and Dish both
exist. They do have some of the same channels but their packages are
different and there are channels on one that you can't get on the other.
They seem to both be doing just fine. You say companies are smart for
making titles available for both consoles. Movie companies did this for
both VHS and Beta, but did that help Beta?

>> others don't feel the same way you do.
>
> More people subscribe to XM than do for Sirius, so I don't know where you
> are
> getting that idea from.

Why do you think that just because someone subscribes to XM that they
automatically think that Sirius is going to die? Surely that is not
everyone's reason for subscribing to XM. I can guarantee that since I'm an
XM subscriber and I don't think Sirius is going to die, nor did I subscribe
to XM just in case. I think some people subscribed to XM because they
didn't know enough about another option being there, or they got XM in that
8 month period when you could not go with any other satellite radio provider
BUT XM, or they got a good equipment deal on XM, or they liked XM's
programming better. There's probably a small fraction of XM subscribers
where the deciding factor was that Sirius is going to go under, nowhere near
the difference in amount of subscribers, though.

> In fact, if Howard Stern had not ever decided to go with Sirius, no one
> would
> even be TALKING about Sirius today. They were just about to fold in,
> and
> this attempt to try and keep the race going is just hurtful to everyone,
> mostly
> the consumer.

I was talking about Sirius before the Stern announcement. I felt they would
survive then, too. Sirius would not fold without Stern, but Howard does put
them in a better position.

>> What will it take for you to believe
>> Sirius will survive?
>
> The same it would take for you to believe Beta will survive.

Beta is already extinct and has been for a decade or so. We're talking
about technologies that exist today. Now.

> What kind of computer do you have, PC or Mac?

I got several PC's and a couple old old mac's like of the 68040 vintage :-)

> Many people tried to convince me that Mac was better.

And they are!

> But if I want to trade
> files and work on programs from work and home, I need PC. If I want to
> email
> and trade files with friends, I need PC. The world works on PC, so
> even IF
> Mac is a better machine, what good is it if it is not compatible with most
> of
> the world?

The Mac is a better machine, it just might not be better for you. The world
doesn't work on XM so I don't know how you could draw such an analogy
anyways.

> Why schools insist on teaching kids on Macs, when in the real
> world they will have to work on PCs in the workplace, and have PCs at home
> they
> use, is still a mystery to me.

Because they donate the equipment to the schools or offer very lucrative buy
programs. Macs also always appear in movies, tv shows, etc. Macs are very
often used in graphic design and animation, too, where having a more
functional machine is more important than running PC exclusive software.

> Mac has almost completely gone away many times, why are they still around?
> Because those in artistic mediums like graphics design still use them.
> Betamax still exists in the commercial medium too, many broadcast stations
> still
> use them, although they are commercial decks, not consumer. The reason
> I can
> still buy minidiscs, is because even though the consumer didn't click to
> them,
> the broadcast industry did, so I can still buy them.

Commercial Betamax is very different from the old consumer version. If PC's
could do the job better than Macs than graphic design people would use PC's.

> But on the consumer side, Mac is dead. Some still are stubborn and
> insist on
> trying hard to keep them alive, and the only reason they can, is because
> files
> can be converted and used on both systems now. But before many movie
> studios
> can use the audio files I make for them, they have to convert them to aiff
> files
> first.

It depends on the person and what you want to use the computer for.

> At one time, I had to master audio recordings on Mac based Sonic
> Solutions.
> Then we saw how much better PC based Wavelab and the AudioCube was in
> comparison, and made the switch.

I use Cool Edit Pro. I'm not familiar enough on the audio packages
available today on either platform to make that kind of judgement.

> Now I can work at home and at their studios, because we are all
> compatible.
> In fact, I can email an entire project, just by emailing a file that is
> smaller
> than a jpg, that when they open it up on the other end, will take all the
> audio
> on their end and make all the edits and mixes together instantly and I
> don't
> need to mail them a CD with all the audio files on it. All the
> processing and
> whatnot is just contained in the montage file I can email.
>
> Not something so easy when some people are using macs and others using
> PCs.

What, do you think macs can't send or receive emails? My 68040 machine
could even do that. It also reads mp3 and wav files, too.

> If Sirius was the company that was as far ahead of XM, as XM is now ahead
> of
> Sirius, then I would be just as strongly in support of Sirius. But
> then,
> Sirius would have had the better selections and music choices too, else
> how
> would they have been ahead in the first place.

How far ahead is XM? A year? The gap isn't getting bigger, Sirius is
catching up. I don't see how you could draw the comparison to PC and Mac.
Look at DirecTV and Dish Network instead.

[John A. Weeks III]

In article <419B946A.FCDBBFD2@sucks.com>, Truth <yenc@sucks.com> wrote:

> > >Wow, that would certainly be bad news for Sirius.
> >
> > Maybe not. Selling Stern to XM certainly could raise some much needed
> > cash.
>
> Yes, but with Stern on XM, there REALLY would be no reason for anyone to
> go to Sirrius at all. Right now, that is the ONLY reason to go with
> Sirrius.
>
> I just looked at their channel line up again, and they don't even have
> CNN!! They have CNN headline news! XM has BOTH, but who cares about
> headline news, I want CNN when I am in the car, not headline news.

Bzzzzzt! Wrong again, thanks for playing. Sirius 104 is CNN.
It is the same CNN from TV, complete with Wolf Blitzer, Anderson
Cooper 360, and Larry King.

-john-

--
====================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
====================================================================

[Bob Haberkost]

"Truth" <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message news:419B93F3.2692EFB4@sucks.com...

> But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of these
> companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as VHS and
> Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own another, we
> CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth between
> the two stations.

Were that this assumption were true, then I'd agree with you. Your comparables are,
as you said earlier, apples and oranges (and how long will it be that you'll claim
that Beta and VHS are the same, because they're BOTH VCR form factors?).

The VHS/Beta debate was an issue of software and standards, where producers needed to
accomodate both systems and the infrastructure to support them. This is audio, and,
as a subscription-driven service, decisions are self-selected, often based on
content, not price. Thus, like your radio station analogy, both can easily survive,
everything else being equal, because, like radio stations, subscribers can make the
choice.

Further (as you have yet to acknowledge) the FCC has mandated that both services
merge codecs in the coming years, at which point the issue becomes moot.

Another analogy is cellular phones. One provider standardised on TDMA digital,
another on CDMA. In my opinion, both are equal(ly bad) in the quality and coverage
area. And both (major) providers survive today, save some consolidation. And all
are moving to GSM, while locking their phones to the home service. And they're still
here, having survived both the proprietary as well as the open model.

So there you have two business models, the cell phone analogy being the closer, where
everyone is left standing. So why would Sirius or XM fate differ, considering they
use the same revenue model?

Hypergraphia can be cured.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-

[John A. Weeks III]

In article <4MOmd.7500$tS4.2182@trndny09>, Bob Haberkost
<cbclistener-really!-@canada.com> wrote:

> Hypergraphia can be cured.

Considering the material that "yenc" keeps posting, are you sure
that it isn't diarrhea rather than hypergraphia? Perhaps if he
just rubs some Prep-H on his fingers and keyboard, he will recover.

-john-

--
====================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
====================================================================

[Truth]

> Who says Sirius is doing bad?

Who says they are doing GOOD? They have yet to make any profits. And
after all the debt they are in, they go and make the big expensive deal with
Stern.

With my companies, I never spent money I didn't have. Of course, I never
had to declare bankruptcy either and ruin my reputation or credit.

> The only thing bad about Sirius is that
> they're in debt, huge amounts of debt

"Only"

Another bad thing for them is how many more subscribers XM has over them.

> , but just like XM, DirecTV, Echostar,
> StarChoice, ExpressVu, Voom, etc etc they all need/needed years to come out
> of debt. Once they do will you accept that there's always going to be at
> least two satellite radio providers in North America?

Not so long as they both provide different programming!

If both XM and Sirius were comparable to DirecTV and DishNetwork, where you
could get the same programming from both, then yes I would.

The reason I keep bringing up the analogy of VHS and Beta, is because I am
trying to show you the incompatibility of one with the other.

Some of us have cable, others DirecTV, others DishNetwork, and even more
choices, but we can ALL watch CNN, MTV, Discovery, and all the rest.

How can you compare that to XM and Sirius? Sirius doesn't even have CNN!
(not headline news, but the REAL CNN channel)

> Sounds a lot like DirecTV and Dish Network. Both of these are still around
> today what is it now 10 years later?

And so is Cable TV.

Look.... Best Buy and Circuit City can both be around too, because they sell
the same stuff.

Stop comparing apples and oranges.

The best analogy is VHS and Beta when talking about XM and Sirius.

You can't listen to Sirius on an XM radio! (Can't watch a Beta tape on a VHS
player!)

You CAN watch a DirecTV program on a Dish Network system.

PLEASE tell me you understand this now.


> > Would you have bought the rights to Betamax at the end when they were
> > failing
> > and tried to compete against VHS?
>
> While they're extinct in the home market, in the professional video market
> they seem to be doing quite well

Don't twist it around to get away from the point!

We are talking only about the CONSUMER side.

> Would you have bought the rights to Betamax at the end when they were
> failing
> and tried to compete against VHS?




> Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges.

No YOU did that when trying to use DirecTV and DishNetwork instead of the more
proper analogy of VHS and Beta.

> VHS compared to Betamax would
> be more analogous today to the various HD-DVD formats that they're coming
> out with.

NO! That would more like comparing FM to satellite radio!

We are comparing two incompatible services, XM and Sirius.

Both digital, so they would BOTH be the HD-DVD formats in your analogy.



> > Video game companies that end up losing to playstation and nintendo,
> > instead
> > just program games that work on the systems that won the marketplace.
> > That is
> > smart.
>
> XBox and PS2 seem to be both holding the market very well.

Again you missed the point completely. Is Atari, Intellevision, and the rest
still around? No. Point is, many of them gave up and started making software
for the winners instead.

Sony, the maker of Beta, went on to make VHS players!

Sirius, if they want to stay in business, has to do something working WITH XM
instead of against it and learn from history.

> > Sirius should buy some channels from XM, then they can both work together
> > to
> > make one compatible service stronger and profitable for both of them.
>
> >> still it would be something to go down in the history books if Sirius
> >> ever
> >> went dark for good.
> >
> > We seen it with Betamax.
>
> It's not the same thing. Betamax going sour didn't leave perfectly good
> satellites in the sky for someone else to use.

It did leave a lot of machines that are now in landfills. Skylab is not
around anymore either. The satellites have a lifespan anyway, you just have to
write those off and let them die, or go up their and change the frequencies they
use, so that they work with XM radios. But since Bush crashed the Space
Shuttle program so he had more money for war, doesn't look like that is possible
any more.

Think of the Sirius satellites as millions of consumer Betamax machines.

Yes it is sad they can't be used anymore, but that is just a hard cold fact, and
you have to move on.

Look. Howard Stern is now brought to the level he is going to stand out on the
street and hand out free Sirius radios to people in New York! See how
desperate they have become?

They are doing all they can before Christmas, just like candidates before an
election. But once Christmas Day comes. The election will be over. We
will have one winner.


> >> I know you'll never have a positive outlook for Sirius,
> >
> > You make it sound as if it is personal. I knew that Betamax was a much
> > better quality system than VHS, but I went with VHS because I was it was
> > the
> > winner in the market place, and I can still use those decks today, while
> > anyone
> > with Betamax is stuck with a useless machine with no more movies being
> > made for
> > them.
>
> How is Betamax a better quality system?

Which did the professional television industry go with?
It has superior picture quality.

> Even when they did have tapes
> longer than an hour

See, you are the typical consumer that goes with gimmicks and features over
quality.

Yes, VHS said: "Hey look, you can record 6 hours on one of our tapes!" and
the consumers chose VHS over Beta. Never mind that VHS only has 2 hours per
tape, and in order to use the 6 hour mode, the quality suffered big time.

> , they didn't employ any methods that could not have been
> accomplished with a VHS player.

What they COULD have done is made a longer recording time too, but realizing the
quality would be worse, those engineers didn't waste time with it.

I never use anything but the two hour speed when using VHS. Even though the
hifi track NOW makes the slower speed with just as good audio quality (which was
NOT the case back when the VHS/Beta race was on) the video is PATHETIC in 6 hour
mode.

THUS why people think DVD looks so much better than VHS!! They are used to
recording on a $50 VHS player with cheap tapes recorded at the slowest speed!
Yes, any DVD looks a lot better than that! But I can make VHS recordings
that blow away the most expensive DVD players! (of course not from DVD or
broadcast sources, but my own camera sources)

> > At the beginning, I was hoping for Sirius, because at the beginning, they
> > had
> > superior quality audio, and XM was a company influenced by Clear Channel.
>
> I'm hoping they both survive because a monopoly is just the thing that will
> get people driven away from satellite radio.

Why does it have to be a monopoly? Is the FM band a monopoly? ONE
satellite service or band of frequencies, and let XM and Sirius share channels
on the ONE band that ALL satellite radios can tune in!

Compatible AND no monopoly.

Think of the satellite as the FM band, and lots of different companies setting
up stations on the ONE band that ALL radios can tune to!

What if every FM station on the band each required you to buy a separate $150
radio?

You want it that way, I want it the better way.


> > But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of these
> > companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as VHS
> > and
> > Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own another,
> > we
> > CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth
> > between
> > the two stations.
>
> The radios aren't that expensive.

Now you are just being ridiculous and arguing for the sake of argument.

[Truth]

> > I just looked at their channel line up again, and they don't even have
> > CNN!! They have CNN headline news! XM has BOTH, but who cares about
> > headline news, I want CNN when I am in the car, not headline news.
>
> Bzzzzzt! Wrong again, thanks for playing. Sirius 104 is CNN.

First off all, I have not been wrong before, so don't say again. Second, I
have a Sirus brochure they sent me in the mail just this week that lists channel
104 as "CNN HEADLINE NEWS" And there is no other CNN channel listed.

It is possible that they (since printing this brochure) changed it to regular
CNN, but I am going to call them now and ask them to make sure.

If it turns out that they have, then it was not me that was wrong, but Sirius's
brochure. If it turns out that they still are headline news on that channel,
then it will be YOU that are wrong AGAIN. I have YET to be proven wrong in ANY
of my statements so far. I take pride in that.

[Truth]

> > I just looked at their channel line up again, and they don't even have
> > CNN!! They have CNN headline news! XM has BOTH, but who cares about
> > headline news, I want CNN when I am in the car, not headline news.
>
> Bzzzzzt! Wrong again, thanks for playing. Sirius 104 is CNN.
> It is the same CNN from TV, complete with Wolf Blitzer, Anderson
> Cooper 360, and Larry King.

Just called Sirius as 1-888-539-7474 and asked them straight out if they have
the regular CNN channel or just headline news, and I was just now told they ONLY
have headline news NOT the regular CNN channel.

You are free to call this number and ask too. The menu options don't give a
choice for regular questions, so I pressed ZERO, and got someone that could
answer this for me.

[Truth]

> > But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of these
> > companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as VHS and
> > Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own another, we
> > CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth between
> > the two stations.
>
> Were that this assumption were true, then I'd agree with you.

It is true. Which FM station can you not get now and have to buy a new radio before you
can tune in?

> Your comparables are,
> as you said earlier, apples and oranges

No, the DirecTV and DishNetwork to XM and Sirius are apples and oranges. VHS and Beta
to XM and Sirrius are apples and apples.

> (and how long will it be that you'll claim
> that Beta and VHS are the same, because they're BOTH VCR form factors?).

You are really stretching now. Why make such a ridiculous and uncalled for accusation?

Can you play a Beta movie on a VHS player? No. Can you listen to XM COMEDY channel
on a Sirius radio? No.

See the analogy?

> Further (as you have yet to acknowledge) the FCC has mandated that both services
> merge codecs in the coming years

Just as you failed to acknowledge that Best Buy is having a sale.

> , at which point the issue becomes moot.

If that's the term you like to use for "irrelevant", then so be it.

> Another analogy is cellular phones. One provider standardised on TDMA digital,
> another on CDMA.

No it is not, because I can have one, you the other, and yet I can call and talk to you
on yours, it is still compatible.

I can have a Sony FM radio, you can have a GE FM radio, we can both tune in the same
stations.

Apples and oranges.

XM is to VHS and Beta is to Sirius.

Stick with this analogy, and you won't keep getting so far off track.

Even RadioWorld magazine just published an article using the VHS/Beta analogy, they too
find it to be an excellent one.

> So there you have two business models, the cell phone analogy being the closer, where
> everyone is left standing. So why would Sirius or XM fate differ, considering they
> use the same revenue model?

Why did Beta fail? Because people want to send video of the grandchildren to
grandparents, people want to be able to rent and play VHS movies from Blockbuster on a
machine that will play them.

We are still at the time period where you could rent BOTH VHS and Beta movies at the
rental stores, remember the early 80s?

That is where we are now with XM and Sirius.

Now go ahead a few years. Your XM radio can tune in lots of channels, but your Sirius
radio has nothing to tune in. Just as you can not rent any movies for your Beta
machine.

Think of it this way.

It is 1983 and we are having this argument with me saying that it is smarter to buy the
VHS deck, and you saying that it is better to get the Beta deck. People meanwhile are
buying both systems.

Now skip to 1993. I am still using my VHS deck, you now have a VHS deck too.

History is repeating itself now. Don't be stuck with the Sirius radio and have to go
out and buy an XM radio in the end anyway.

[Truth]

> Considering the material that "yenc" keeps posting, are you sure
> that it isn't diarrhea rather than hypergraphia? Perhaps if he
> just rubs some Prep-H on his fingers and keyboard, he will recover.

Considering you don't have any pictures on your website of you as an
adult, only up to a teenager, we can see why you need to use name
calling and childish statements like this rather than have an adult
discussion.

You lose all respect with everyone here when you resort to statements
like this.

[Mark S.]

"Truth" <yenc@sucks.com> wrote in message
news:419BC1D3.6E057BC3@sucks.com...
>> Who says Sirius is doing bad?
>
> Who says they are doing GOOD? They have yet to make any profits.
> And
> after all the debt they are in, they go and make the big expensive deal
> with
> Stern.

Are you saying XM is making a profit? Gee, that deal with the NFL was some
expensive!

> With my companies, I never spent money I didn't have. Of course, I
> never
> had to declare bankruptcy either and ruin my reputation or credit.

That'd be kind of hard to do when your companies business revolves around
launching satellites. Can you afford to build and launch three satellites
without spending money you don't have? How many satellite companies in
business today do you think started up without borrowed money?

>> The only thing bad about Sirius is that
>> they're in debt, huge amounts of debt
>
> "Only"
>
> Another bad thing for them is how many more subscribers XM has over them.

XM had an 8 month head start in which they had no competition. Give Sirius
time, they'll gain subscribers.

>> , but just like XM, DirecTV, Echostar,
>> StarChoice, ExpressVu, Voom, etc etc they all need/needed years to come
>> out
>> of debt. Once they do will you accept that there's always going to be at
>> least two satellite radio providers in North America?
>
> Not so long as they both provide different programming!
>
> If both XM and Sirius were comparable to DirecTV and DishNetwork, where
> you
> could get the same programming from both, then yes I would.
>
> The reason I keep bringing up the analogy of VHS and Beta, is because I am
> trying to show you the incompatibility of one with the other.
>
> Some of us have cable, others DirecTV, others DishNetwork, and even more
> choices, but we can ALL watch CNN, MTV, Discovery, and all the rest.

Voom carries for the most part original, in house programming. The other
programming they get from other sources you cannot all get from any other
single HD sat provider. Are they doomed, too? Not all of the programming
on DirecTV and Dish are repeated on both. You can't get GAC on DirecTV but
you can on Dish. Everyone knows Dish's international programming is much
more varied than DirecTV's. Of course all of the big ones, CNN, MTV,
Discovery channel are carried on both, but if you look close, there's a good
deal of channels that are different. And yes, the receivers for all of
these providers are incompatable with each other.

> How can you compare that to XM and Sirius? Sirius doesn't even have
> CNN!
> (not headline news, but the REAL CNN channel)

It used to be Headline News but it's the real CNN now. When you call
Sirius, like when you call XM, you're getting a call centre. Sirius' is in
New York. Take what they say with a grain of salt. Check out this link
from Sirius' webpage: http://www.sirius.com/CNNHeadlineNews
The link does say Headline News in it, but if you look at the contents,
they're very much the regular CNN.

>> Sounds a lot like DirecTV and Dish Network. Both of these are still
>> around
>> today what is it now 10 years later?
>
> And so is Cable TV.
>
> Look.... Best Buy and Circuit City can both be around too, because they
> sell
> the same stuff.

Now you're comparing stores that sell the same stuff to DTV and Dish? Might
as well say since Walgreens sells different stuff than Best Buy that they're
related to XM and Sirius. That's almost as silly as the VHS/Beta
comparison.

> Stop comparing apples and oranges.

Look who's talking!

> The best analogy is VHS and Beta when talking about XM and Sirius.

I disagree, as if it wasn't obvious already.

> You can't listen to Sirius on an XM radio! (Can't watch a Beta tape on
> a VHS
> player!)

You can't watch GAC on DirecTV. You can't watch Classics HD, Divine HD,
Equator HD, Rush HD, etc etc etc on DirecTV, Dish or anything BUT Voom. You
can't play Halo 2 on PS2, only on Xbox.

> You CAN watch a DirecTV program on a Dish Network system.

That depends on the program. If it's your beloved CNN, then yes. If you
want TV Japan, you're going to have to go with Dish because it's not on
DirecTV. There's a good deal of channels, particularly international, that
are on Dish and not on DirecTV. The network affiliates you get on ExpressVu
are different than those on Star Choice. Voom's channels are much different
from any other provider.

> PLEASE tell me you understand this now.

I understand that you only want to compare Sirius to Beta because Beta
failed.

>> > Would you have bought the rights to Betamax at the end when they were
>> > failing
>> > and tried to compete against VHS?
>>
>> While they're extinct in the home market, in the professional video
>> market
>> they seem to be doing quite well
>
> Don't twist it around to get away from the point!
>
> We are talking only about the CONSUMER side.

It doesn't matter. You asked if I would buy the rights to Betamax when they
were failing. Sirius is not failing; far from it. They're are just getting
started and it's way too early to be saying that the end is near for Sirius.

>> VHS compared to Betamax would
>> be more analogous today to the various HD-DVD formats that they're coming
>> out with.
>
> NO! That would more like comparing FM to satellite radio!
>
> We are comparing two incompatible services, XM and Sirius.
>
> Both digital, so they would BOTH be the HD-DVD formats in your analogy.

VHS and Beta are both analog. HD-DVD formats are digital, yes. All of the
HD-DVD formats are incompatable with each other, just like recordable DVD's
were until they came out with multiformat drives. Still, not all recordable
DVD formats are compatable with all players, and even recordable CD's aren't
readable in all players. Now with multilayer recordable DVD's and blue
laser recordable formats, the industry is going to have to end up
standardizing on one way to record HD video.

>> > Video game companies that end up losing to playstation and nintendo,
>> > instead
>> > just program games that work on the systems that won the marketplace.
>> > That is
>> > smart.
>>
>> XBox and PS2 seem to be both holding the market very well.
>
> Again you missed the point completely. Is Atari, Intellevision, and the
> rest
> still around? No. Point is, many of them gave up and started making
> software
> for the winners instead.

But, there are at least two which are around and doing just fine. The video
game console markets last for only 3 years or so at a time anyways since
they keep coming out with new consoles which are not backwards compatible.
While Sirius and XM will always be coming out with new radios, you won't
have to buy a new one in order to keep on receiving the satellite signal.
If Atari or Coleco came out with a game system today that worked better than
the PS2 and the Xbox, was attractively priced and marketed properly, there's
no reason why they couldn't be back in the game. Microsoft can afford
selling their consoles at a loss to try and eliminate the competition by
using their profits from the PC world to try and create a monopoly in the
video game console world.

> Sony, the maker of Beta, went on to make VHS players!
>
> Sirius, if they want to stay in business, has to do something working WITH
> XM
> instead of against it and learn from history.

I think Sirius would rather die trying but I don't think it will ever come
to this point. Even if it did, XM could buy them at a bargain basement
price and acquire all of the Sirius subscribers.

>> > Sirius should buy some channels from XM, then they can both work
>> > together
>> > to
>> > make one compatible service stronger and profitable for both of them.
>>
>> >> still it would be something to go down in the history books if Sirius
>> >> ever
>> >> went dark for good.
>> >
>> > We seen it with Betamax.
>>
>> It's not the same thing. Betamax going sour didn't leave perfectly good
>> satellites in the sky for someone else to use.
>
> It did leave a lot of machines that are now in landfills. Skylab is
> not
> around anymore either. The satellites have a lifespan anyway, you just
> have to
> write those off and let them die, or go up their and change the
> frequencies they
> use, so that they work with XM radios. But since Bush crashed the Space
> Shuttle program so he had more money for war, doesn't look like that is
> possible
> any more.

A 15 year lifespan. I don't think the lawyers would allow for perfectly
good satellites that they could get money off of to pay the debt just float
around in a graveyard orbit. It would be way to expensive for any
commercial company to have a manned space mission fix their satellite. The
government could afford fixing hubble because they have no problem spending
money they'll never have anyways. Don't forget that the space shuttle is
not the only vehicle sending people in and out of space, there are other
countries in space.

> Think of the Sirius satellites as millions of consumer Betamax machines.

It'll never happen. It didn't happen with Iridium, it won't happen with
Sirius.

> Yes it is sad they can't be used anymore, but that is just a hard cold
> fact, and
> you have to move on.

We shall see.

> Look. Howard Stern is now brought to the level he is going to stand out
> on the
> street and hand out free Sirius radios to people in New York! See how
> desperate they have become?

Sirius handed out free radios with subscriptions in the goodie bags at the
American Music Awards, too. So what? It's not an act of desparity, it's a
publicity stunt.

> They are doing all they can before Christmas, just like candidates before
> an
> election. But once Christmas Day comes. The election will be over.
> We
> will have one winner.

It will be interesting to see your excuses of why Sirius is surviving after
Christmas.

>> >> I know you'll never have a positive outlook for Sirius,
>> >
>> > You make it sound as if it is personal. I knew that Betamax was a
>> > much
>> > better quality system than VHS, but I went with VHS because I was it
>> > was
>> > the
>> > winner in the market place, and I can still use those decks today,
>> > while
>> > anyone
>> > with Betamax is stuck with a useless machine with no more movies being
>> > made for
>> > them.
>>
>> How is Betamax a better quality system?
>
> Which did the professional television industry go with?
> It has superior picture quality.

The Beta systems they're using in the professional television industry are
very different than the home Betamax. The picture quality of the consumer
systems were in no way superior to VHS.

>> Even when they did have tapes
>> longer than an hour
>
> See, you are the typical consumer that goes with gimmicks and features
> over
> quality.

There wasn't any difference in quality between the SP speed on VHS and the 1
hour Beta tapes.

> Yes, VHS said: "Hey look, you can record 6 hours on one of our tapes!"
> and
> the consumers chose VHS over Beta. Never mind that VHS only has 2 hours
> per
> tape, and in order to use the 6 hour mode, the quality suffered big time.

You can use VHS in SP mode and get 2 hours and the quality would be the same
as Beta. The fact that VHS has the option to record something 6 hours long
with a quality tradeoff if you wanted is a benefit. You don't have to use
EP or SLP or whatever it is if you don't want to.

>> , they didn't employ any methods that could not have been
>> accomplished with a VHS player.
>
> What they COULD have done is made a longer recording time too, but
> realizing the
> quality would be worse, those engineers didn't waste time with it.

If the cassette was big enough to hold enough tape without getting tangled,
maybe they would have.

> I never use anything but the two hour speed when using VHS. Even
> though the
> hifi track NOW makes the slower speed with just as good audio quality
> (which was
> NOT the case back when the VHS/Beta race was on) the video is PATHETIC in
> 6 hour
> mode.

So use the 2 hour mode and compare it to Beta. What makes Beta better?

> THUS why people think DVD looks so much better than VHS!! They are used
> to
> recording on a $50 VHS player with cheap tapes recorded at the slowest
> speed!
> Yes, any DVD looks a lot better than that! But I can make VHS
> recordings
> that blow away the most expensive DVD players! (of course not from DVD
> or
> broadcast sources, but my own camera sources)

DVD's quality also does not diminish over time. If you like to rent movies,
and you've rented your fair share of VHS tapes, you know that some of those
tapes are horrible quality. You still have people who will scratch up the
DVD's, but you can put them in a disk doctor and make them nice and new. If
that can't fix it then it would be replaced. You can play a DVD a million
times and it will be the same quality each time you play it.

>> > At the beginning, I was hoping for Sirius, because at the beginning,
>> > they
>> > had
>> > superior quality audio, and XM was a company influenced by Clear
>> > Channel.
>>
>> I'm hoping they both survive because a monopoly is just the thing that
>> will
>> get people driven away from satellite radio.
>
> Why does it have to be a monopoly? Is the FM band a monopoly? ONE
> satellite service or band of frequencies, and let XM and Sirius share
> channels
> on the ONE band that ALL satellite radios can tune in!
>
> Compatible AND no monopoly.

XM isn't a band, it's a service. You can tell just by XM's name they want
to get people in the mode of thinking it's a separate band or form of
modulation. FM isn't a monopoly because you don't have to subscribe to any
of it. XM is already trying hard to improve their codec so they can squeeze
in more channels without people becoming more perturbed about the sound
quality. Do you really think XM will give up half of it's bandwidth to
support Sirius? I don't think so. Sirius already spent a great deal on
perfectly good satellites and that's where they're staying. XM will always
own their satellites and as long as they do and there's no other
competition, it will be a monopoly. They'd love to have a monopoly so then
they could raise their prices to make up for lost revenue in getting rid of
commercials on music channels. They wouldn't let the competition ruin their
monopoly by riding on their satellites and stealing half of their bandwidth.

> Think of the satellite as the FM band, and lots of different companies
> setting
> up stations on the ONE band that ALL radios can tune to!

It will never happen. DirecTV is not a band, Voom is not a band, nor is
Dish, ExpressVu, StarChoice, none of them. Eventually a radio will be
designed that can pick up either or, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

> What if every FM station on the band each required you to buy a separate
> $150
> radio?

So XM and Sirius have only one station on them now? That's a silly
comparison.

> You want it that way, I want it the better way.

The way it is now is the better way. The competition is good for both
services and has had both thinking overtime on how they can improve their
programming and radios to keep subscribers coming to their respective
services. I know what you're getting at. You'd like one service to just
sell off their bandwidth to whoever wants it and they'd split up the
subscriber fees to all of these stations that bought bandwidth. You see
that with C band and Ku band stuff, but I don't see something like that
coming to SDARS.

>> > But because both companies can not be received on ONE radio, ONE of
>> > these
>> > companies MUST go dark eventually! They can not BOTH exist, just as
>> > VHS
>> > and
>> > Beta could not BOTH exist. If I own an FM station, and you own
>> > another,
>> > we
>> > CAN both exist, because EVERYONE can tune in both and go back and forth
>> > between
>> > the two stations.
>>
>> The radios aren't that expensive.
>
> Now you are just being ridiculous and arguing for the sake of argument.

How is that ridiculous? I don't have buckets full of money so if something
was too expensive, I'd be the first to say it. For the price of a MyFi you
could certainly have a very good XM and Sirius radio. You can get car
stereos that have just a CD player and ones that have just a cassette
player. Before they came out with ones that had both, you didn't see people
saying CD's should fail because there aren't any car stereos that play both!
You accuse me of arguing for the sake of argument? I think that the
majority of your posts fall into that realm!